The Stigma of Murder Didn't Block the Sale of this $900,000 Toronto Home

Some people won't buy a house where there's been a gruesome crime. Some people are less bothered. Their agent probably wishes he wasn't quoted in Canada's biggest broadsheet saying "It's a great conversation piece." 

One More Post on Real Estate and Violent Death

A response to my two previous posts on real estate and violent deaths from thoughtful reader Kristian Gravenor:

Nice post, good topic, but I think you're greatly overestimating the issue.

People die in every pre-owned house in a lot of ways. It has no bearing on what happens when you live there.

In the USA there's a hodgepodge of laws from state to state concerning disclosure but I've never found a case in the jugements.qc.ca files of a lawsuit asking for material damages from such a failure to disclose in Kweebeck.

Unless there was a Jim Jones-type body count inside the house I wouldn't be bothered a tiny bit by what happened before.

Yes, but there's a difference between people dying in houses and people dying violently in houses. I learned this lesson first hand a few years ago when I was given the responsibility of selling a home in which the owner had just taken his own life. In this case, the death was not violent, as these things go, but it was an unnatural death. The police and an ambulance were involved. All the neighbors knew what had happened.That raised the potential for neighborhood gossp and conjecture.

It was an interesting experience. The house was fully furnished but quite empty. People had what can only be described as "spidey senses". You could see them trying to put the story of this house together as they walked through. They knew something was a bit off about it.

If I sensed that there was an interest in making an offer, I would sit down and explain the situation. It was amazing the number of times people told me intimate stories of their own experiences with suicide - friends, family members, their struggles with dark thoughts. These are not the kinds of stories you tell complete strangers. Or maybe they are.

The first people who wanted to make an offer on the house were a Vietnamese family, elderly parents, young professional kids. As soon as they heard about the suicide, they said sorry, no thanks. Here's the thing, and it speaks to the point you raise, Kristian. They would not have been bothered by a death in the house. Had an old person died quietly in the house after a long, good life, that would have been auspicious. A violent death was not negotiable.

It took a while, but I sold the house to a family from Iran. The woman with whom I was negotiating had a cousin who took her own life in her early 20s. She had thought long and hard about what makes people kill themselves. Her only question before buying the house was whether kids in the local school yard were going to pick on her son or refuse to play at their house because of that event. I told her I didn't think they would. She bought a good house in a good neighborhood at a good price.

As for whether people go to court over the failure to disclose, you may be right, though I wonder how you would even check such a thing. The other option is that the parties settle out of court most times because if there's been a violent death and the broker hasn't disclosed, the buyer would win, hands down.

So there, you go, Kristian. Thanks for writing. You keep me on my toes.

When Your Dream Home Was the Scene of a Nightmare

Yahoo News picked up a Toronto Star story today about a Bowmanville, Ont. couple who bought what they thought was their dream home, only to discover that the property was the scene of a double murder 15 years earlier.

The owners are now suing their real estate agent, claiming she should have disclosed the house's sordid past to them. They are also suing the former owners, who purchased the property after the crime.

According to the Toronto Star story (link here until it goes dead): 

"The Real Estate Council of Ontario, which regulates the industry, issued a warning to (agent Mary) Roy last month on the grounds that she “deliberately withheld a material fact known to her” regarding the murders from the buyers, contrary to the Real Estate and Business Brokers Act. The decision followed a complaint by the (buyers) earlier this year.
The council cited several provisions in the act’s code of conduct, including not engaging “in any act or omission that, having regard to all the circumstances, would reasonably be regarded as disgraceful, dishonorable, unprofessional or unbecoming a registrant.”

The Star story goes on to say that the case raises questions about what a real estate agent is obliged to disclose.

"Lawyers say the case involves a grey area in common law on the issue of “duty to disclose” — and how to assess what information that entails.
If the claim proceeds to trial, it could become a test case for the doctrine of “caveat emptor,” or buyer beware, and whether the couple’s situation is an exception to that general rule."

You will be glad to know that in Quebec there is no such ambiguity about what an agent is obliged to disclose to a potential buyer. The Real Estate Brokerage Act (REBA) says:

 A broker or agency executive officer must inform the party represented
and all other parties to a transaction of any known factor that may adversely
affect the parties or the object of the transaction.

In plain English, if I know something about a house,I must disclose it, whether the buyer asks or not.
The law goes further. Each time a client and I sign a brokerage contract before listing a property for sale, we also complete a Vendor's Declaration. This six-page checklist is where sellers declare everything they know about their house, from the age of the roof to - oh yeah, by the way -  someone was killed here.

"To your knowledge, has there ever been a suicide or violent death in the immovable?"

In case that is too narrow a question, the declaration also inquires:

"To your knowledge, are there any other factors relating to the immovable not mentioned in these declaration that are liable to significantly reduce the value or restrict the use thereof, reduce the income generated thereby or increase the expenses relating thereto (e.g. development or construction project, environmental problems (e.g. radon, abnormally high noise level, unpleasant odor, etc.)"

The latter question covers pretty much any other eventuality, whether the house was used as a brothel, a marijuana grow-op or a slaughterhouse for chickens. (Where did THAT come from?)

The vendor's declaration is attached to the listing so that other agents can see it. Buyers are given a copy before they make their offer and must sign and date the declaration as proof that they are aware of all a house's quirks and defects.

There's no gray area in Quebec law about whether or not you must disclose. When in doubt, disclose.